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Post by rasputindarksyde on Dec 3, 2014 21:43:54 GMT
Me and a friend played a simple 100 point game just to get familiar with the rules. Now we are upping it to 300. This is what I came up with.
UEDF 300 Command 18
Valkyrie Squadron: 140
*VF-1S: *VF-1S:
Fire Support Destroid Squadron: 70 *Command Destroid
Fire Support Destroid Squadron: 70 *Command Destroid
That leaves me 20 points to play with. I was thinking of adding in Max and Miriya. Max would be in the J and Miriya would be in a A in the same squad of course. The plan is to split the Valks in two squads of 3 with a VF-1S leading both squads.
What are your thoughts? |
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Post by Galahad on Dec 4, 2014 2:43:30 GMT
Looks pretty solid, but you might be better served investing points in your destroids. Scorpio missiles for the Phalanx are seriously broken. For the cost of one of those VF-1S models you could put Scorpios on both squads, then spend the remaining 20 points either upgrading your valks to 1Rs or giving them LRMs.
If you dropped one of the command destroids you could give the defenders Airburst munitions...they;re not the ebst thing ever byt they're reliable template attacks.
Just imagine the number of pieplates you could lay down...
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Post by n815e on Dec 4, 2014 15:40:10 GMT
Playing to the setting, VF1S was exceptionally rare.
Skull One was the only 1S remaining after the Armada bombarded Earth, it was so rare.
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Post by kyrolon on Dec 4, 2014 18:14:30 GMT
The rarity of the VF-1S is accounted for. I hate to point out Rasputin, but the list as you have it isn't legal. They could have worded it better, but there's no way to field 2 VF-1S in a single Valk force card. At the top of the VF-1S card it notes it as a "Special" option. According to p.75 of the rules each core force card can only have a single Special option attached to it.
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Post by Galahad on Dec 5, 2014 3:03:11 GMT
Actually the rule is you may add one special card *for* each core card in your army, not *to* each core force card, so if you have 3 Cores you can have 3 specials, nothing says they can't go on the same core card (unless I'm mistaken)
that said, the destroid command upgrades are specials too, so if you wanted a paid of 1S valks you;d have to drop a command module.
But, as I said before, there's much better ways to spend your points.
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Post by rasputindarksyde on Dec 5, 2014 5:15:57 GMT
Ok I never noticed the word (special)on the card. I just saw the no more then 2 VF-1S can be in an army. So I can have both command and one S if I wanted, by the rules as I have 3 core formations. So If I drop one S I am good?
Now that leaves me with 30 points+20 if I don't go Max and Miriya. Maybe I will just add a valk squad to the formation. Then go Rick in the S.
So the way I am reading it, you can have two support and one special upgrade attached to a core card.
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Post by kyrolon on Dec 5, 2014 6:49:25 GMT
Actually the rule is you may add one special card *for* each core card in your army, not *to* each core force card, so if you have 3 Cores you can have 3 specials, nothing says they can't go on the same core card (unless I'm mistaken) that said, the destroid command upgrades are specials too, so if you wanted a paid of 1S valks you;d have to drop a command module. But, as I said before, there's much better ways to spend your points. My rulebook was handy so I checked. I'm not sure which way is right now. P.75 states (as you said) that you may purchase a special card for each core card. It goes on to say that each special card must be bought with a core force card.
Now I THINK (operative word here) that the way this would all fit together is this,
I buy a Valkyrie squadron. I buy two more Valkyrie flights I buy a VF-1S This is all one Valkyrie squadron now.
Since I can buy one Special for each core, I cannot buy another VF-1S unless I buy another core squadron. So...
I buy a Valkyrie squadron I buy a VF-1S
This VF-1S is part of the second squadron since it was bought as part of it.
The ambiguous wording here is, "for each squadron." That can mean two things. It can mean you buy 1 per as Galahad suggested, then allocate as you will, or it could mean (as I think is intended) that you purchase a special for THAT squadron when you buy it, and this is a singular thing. It also coincides with all the previews and earlier army lists we saw. Otherwise, you could build squadrons that are stacked with all the best equipment. Using the Zents as an example, I could buy a recon squad, then buy a couple of cheaper core squads, and follow it up by adding 3 Glaug Eldares all to the recon squad to get 4 Glaugs in one squad. I don't think that's what they meant, but I also don't think it can be proven otherwise.
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Post by rasputindarksyde on Dec 5, 2014 8:00:19 GMT
Actually the rule is you may add one special card *for* each core card in your army, not *to* each core force card, so if you have 3 Cores you can have 3 specials, nothing says they can't go on the same core card (unless I'm mistaken) that said, the destroid command upgrades are specials too, so if you wanted a paid of 1S valks you;d have to drop a command module. But, as I said before, there's much better ways to spend your points. My rulebook was handy so I checked. I'm not sure which way is right now. P.75 states (as you said) that you may purchase a special card for each core card. It goes on to say that each special card must be bought with a core force card.
Now I THINK (operative word here) that the way this would all fit together is this,
I buy a Valkyrie squadron. I buy two more Valkyrie flights I buy a VF-1S This is all one Valkyrie squadron now.
Since I can buy one Special for each core, I cannot buy another VF-1S unless I buy another core squadron. So...
I buy a Valkyrie squadron I buy a VF-1S
This VF-1S is part of the second squadron since it was bought as part of it.
The ambiguous wording here is, "for each squadron." That can mean two things. It can mean you buy 1 per as Galahad suggested, then allocate as you will, or it could mean (as I think is intended) that you purchase a special for THAT squadron when you buy it, and this is a singular thing. It also coincides with all the previews and earlier army lists we saw. Otherwise, you could build squadrons that are stacked with all the best equipment. Using the Zents as an example, I could buy a recon squad, then buy a couple of cheaper core squads, and follow it up by adding 3 Glaug Eldares all to the recon squad to get 4 Glaugs in one squad. I don't think that's what they meant, but I also don't think it can be proven otherwise.
I think you are right. When purchasing the upgrade cards they should be bought for the core that you are buying them with. Actually looking Under special it says "Just like the support force cards, Special force cards add new mecha or upgrades to THE core force card they are bought with." So that explains it right there you can only add the upgrades to the core unit that you bought it for.
But is there a restriction in buying two upgrade cards and a special card for a(one) core formation card?
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Post by kyrolon on Dec 5, 2014 17:07:38 GMT
Everything I have read and see so far would indicate that is ok. You can have one Core card, then add two support cards + one special card. So a full up Valk squadron would be a core card with 1VF-1J and 3 VF-1A plus two Valkyrie upgrade cards (4 Vf-1A) and one VF-1S special card.
The unfortunate thing is that by RAW then, in a full squadron you can't have any VF-1Rs. Since that is a support card itself, and it upgrades two existing veritechs rather than adding two. I'd actually house rule that one since it upgrades an existing card.
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brian
New Member
Posts: 91 
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Post by brian on Dec 5, 2014 18:04:20 GMT
I think it's easy enough to just take another squadron. It's not going to matter unless you're trying to keep everyone in close formation, or you just really really want to activate them at the same time. As far as I can tell there's no other benefit.
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Post by rasputindarksyde on Dec 5, 2014 18:33:05 GMT
Everything I have read and see so far would indicate that is ok. You can have one Core card, then add two support cards + one special card. So a full up Valk squadron would be a core card with 1VF-1J and 3 VF-1A plus two Valkyrie upgrade cards (4 Vf-1A) and one VF-1S special card. The unfortunate thing is that by RAW then, in a full squadron you can't have any VF-1Rs. Since that is a support card itself, and it upgrades two existing veritechs rather than adding two. I'd actually house rule that one since it upgrades an existing card. Yeah this is very true.
I think it will help when we get to bigger games. Maybe anyways. Who knows. It's a really simple system so that is a good thing in some respects. I think it could have been written so that upgrades are just that a new type of support card, like the special unit card. You can have a number of upgrades to models or however the upgrades work. So you could upgrade them to R's and still take 4 more valks if you want.
We will see when they get around to an FAQ or errata.
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Post by Galahad on Dec 6, 2014 3:04:50 GMT
It says that the models form the special card attach to the core squad for which it was purchased...but it still never says you can only purchase one for a given card.
You're allowed to purchase one special for each core choice you have, so if you have 3 core you can buy three specials. In a separate clause it states that the model is added to the squad for which it is bought...so you are allowed to buy 3 specials, and you buy two VF-1S cards *for your valk squad* and they join that squads. The cards were purchased for that unit so they attach to that unit. Doesn't say only one of them is allowed to be for that unit.
It's a little sketchy but it's a poorly worded rule so it;s anyone;s guess as to what the intent was, but according to the rules as written, it;s not illegal.
Just, again, not a great choice given the better things you could spend points on.
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Post by rasputindarksyde on Dec 8, 2014 17:34:54 GMT
Ok so I have decided that my list will be this.
UEDF 300
Command 23
Valkyrie Squadron: 160
*Valkyrie Squad:
*VF-1S: Rick or Max:
Fire Support Destroid Squadron: 70
*Command Destroid
Fire Support Destroid Squadron: 70
*Command Destroid
What do you think of this one?
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300 UEDF
Dec 8, 2014 18:49:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by Harlock on Dec 8, 2014 18:49:25 GMT
Should be good to go.
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Post by Galahad on Dec 8, 2014 23:46:54 GMT
Not bad. I still think you'd be better served upgrading those Spartans and/or switching to MRMs than loading up on characters and the 1S, but thst's me.
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Post by rasputindarksyde on Dec 9, 2014 0:00:20 GMT
What Spartans? I am not running Spartans. It is two squads of two Defenders and Phalanx.
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Post by Galahad on Dec 9, 2014 1:30:07 GMT
Sorry, Phalanxes (they used to be called Spartans back in the day). Consider yourself lucky I didn't say 'longbows' ;-)
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Post by rasputindarksyde on Dec 9, 2014 1:43:22 GMT
If you said longbows I would have got that.
I like the blasts with volley 4. Seems pretty devastating to me. Especially against a guy that likes to clump his stuff together.
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Post by Harlock on Dec 9, 2014 2:09:15 GMT
Most Zentraedi players will be clumping due to the bonuses they receive for doing so.
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Post by rasputindarksyde on Dec 9, 2014 2:20:31 GMT
That's true. He just does it with all of the games he plays.
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Post by Galahad on Dec 9, 2014 2:59:03 GMT
But also remember Zentradi are bristling with AMS, meanwhile Scorpios can't be shot down. It's still not a bad list, I just don;t like investing a ton of points into characters in relatively flimsy mecha.
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Post by rasputindarksyde on Dec 9, 2014 3:37:01 GMT
I get that. I am not sure 10 points is a lot in characters. What's flimsy?
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Post by Galahad on Dec 9, 2014 4:23:17 GMT
40 points when you count in the cost of the 1S you're putting them in. And by flimsy I said relatively weak. A 14MDC mecha that costs 40 points is a lot of points to sink into something that can't soak a ton of damage. Sure, it has leadership and good piloting and gunnery, but at 40 points you could get a pair of Phalanxes or Tomahawks. You can deal out and soak up a lot more damage with two tomahawks than a character-driven 1S. Sure. you lose two command points, but I think I'd rather have the extra bodies and guns.
I already feel like the 1S is a tad overpriced. sticking a character on top just compounds it.
But again that's me. I don't have much RRT experience, so this is mainly my Warhammer experience talking. A choice between an expensive character with a couple wounds and a whole squad of guys with guns, most of the time you're better off taking more squaddies.
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Post by rasputindarksyde on Dec 9, 2014 15:45:05 GMT
True, but I really don't consider a 1S as a character. Rick is really going to help tactically with what I want to do. Do its not just points spent unwisely. I am with you in the 40k realm. I am not a hero hammer player at all. But if that character helps me tactically then I will for sure put him in there. This is all new for all of us. So the points might be overpriced or they might be about right. I think the points for the character are pretty good. I could add Rick to the 1J and make it almost like there is two 1S. There for reducing the price in a way.
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brian
New Member
Posts: 91
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Post by brian on Dec 9, 2014 17:46:02 GMT
On the subject of characters... Right now I'm thinking the combination of Max and Miriya will probably be well worth their points. I'm pretty sure Roy is not though. You could get an extra 1S for his points. His free dodge ability is nice, but it's just a limited form of 2 extra command points. You could get that from the extra 1S.
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Post by barnhill on Dec 9, 2014 18:16:33 GMT
Yeah I agree, the M&M combo is a must have for sure I think. Haven't really looked at the others though.
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Post by Galahad on Dec 11, 2014 3:07:39 GMT
Brian has a good point. It also spreads out the investment so you;re not losing a chunk of your list when one model goes down. In the end, do what you feel works best. I tend to err towards more models whenever possible. Someone like Deitrich in a Command Tomahawk would be a worthy expenditure since he's cheap and effective.
But again, that's me. I tend to play conservatively.
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Post by rasputindarksyde on Dec 11, 2014 18:35:02 GMT
I get that. As this is truly my first game I want to try the bigger better stuff out. See if its actually worth it in the end. I tend to follow the same method. But as UEDF is always going to be light on their models we might as well get used to it. I wanted to mass as many command models in here and get as many "officer" models in the list to try to exploit the UEDF special rule. This is all just a learning experience for most of us I am sure. I will be playing it today to see what it does. Thanks everyone for the input.
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Post by Galahad on Dec 12, 2014 2:48:21 GMT
Also fair, this is a new game and it makes sense to try out everything. Let us know how it goes.
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Post by rasputindarksyde on Dec 12, 2014 4:11:19 GMT
I pretty much wiped him off the board turn one. He started off with 36 models and I got him down to 11 at the end of turn one. He was going to start turn two with 6 command out of 20 that he started with. He was basically done at that point. I hadn't lost a single model. I amazingly shot done all of his Heavy arty shots first turn.
The Phalanx are just to Over Powered IMHO They destroyed most of his army by themselves. Volley4 with and getting 4 Blasts per models is ridiculous. Especially doing 9 MD per hit. Granted he did play them a bit on top of each other. I hit 6 models with one blast.
We are doing this right. Volley4 and blast on the same weapon grants that many blast markers? Its seems over powered but makes sense to me.
Rick was pretty nice. I ram him with 2 of the VF-1A's. They Boosted to take out a flank of Pods and ended up killing the Glaug at the end of the turn. Which basically crippled him with command and not being able to bring back any of the other Pods that had dies from that formation.
I don't know if we are doing anything wrong. Or its just the Zentradi have a hard time until the Power armor comes out. Destroids up against pods is very one sided to me.
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