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Post by megatrons2nd on Nov 16, 2014 14:41:51 GMT
Can you Benefit from both close formation and Crossfire?
Say I have a squadron of 6 VF-1's operating in 2 groups of 3 each. One moves behind an opposing unit. This gives me the potential to have both a close formation and crossfire at the same time.
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Post by ItsUncertainWho on Nov 16, 2014 16:52:08 GMT
Yes. That was what I was told at the GenCon demo.
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Post by mike1975 on Nov 16, 2014 21:26:02 GMT
And also Rear Fire, so if you have an Attrition Squad, split it into 3 groups of 4 and surround something, each one will get +1 for Close Formation and +1 for Crossfire and the ones in the rear arc will get those 2 AND +1 for Rear Fire.
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Post by deniper on Nov 17, 2014 15:48:39 GMT
And that's how ya kill things lol.
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Post by megatrons2nd on Jan 1, 2015 2:55:09 GMT
Add on question:
For close formation the rules say to fire simultaneously, but does not say that it has to be the same target. I am assuming it is meant to be the same target, but I wanted to confirm. What does everyone think?
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brian
New Member
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Post by brian on Jan 1, 2015 18:18:34 GMT
It doesn't have to be the same target. You have to declare everyone at once though.
Think of it this way, if you are firing normally (i.e., not close formation), you get to wait and see the results of your buddies' fire. Battlepod A shoots one dude and does some damage. Battlepod B then shoots the same dude and does more damage. Then Battlepod C finished that guy off. You, Battlepod D, then can go shoot another guy because you know the first guy is dead. If you are getting the close formation bonus you can't do that. Everybody shoots and once. That might result in some inefficient targeting situations, but that's the trade-off for the bonus you get.
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Post by captkaruthors on Jan 6, 2015 21:58:06 GMT
Yes as stated. You can stack those bonuses for some tasty results. I've done that with pods: Close formation + backstrike + vets upgrade + crossfire + recon pod bonus...makes for some sick shooting if done right.
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Post by CappenVerra on Jan 17, 2015 13:09:03 GMT
Along the same vein, I have another similar question:
If a group of mecha are all within 2 inches of each other do they HAVE to be declared in close formation? Or, can you chose to declare that only a portion of them are in close formation and not the others?
The reason I ask is because if they ALL have to be in close formation, then they would ALL have to shoot at the same time, negating the option for some of them to shoot after (reacting to the results of the initial close formation shooting results.)
Scenario: (From my step-by-step battle report) Max Sterling is in a VF-1J with 3 VF-1A squad mates. They are all within 2 inches of each other and therefore qualify for close formation shooting. The 3 Valks shoot at a target, getting the +1 for close formation bonus. After the shooting and damage is resolved, Max gets to shoot at the same, or another target (reacting to the results of the initial close formation shooting). Max would not get the +1 close formation shooting bonus.
Legal? Can Max shoot AFTER the 3 Valks or is he FORCED to be declared in close formation by being within 2 inches of a declared close formation?
Your thoughts Gentlemen? |
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brian
New Member
Posts: 91
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Post by brian on Jan 17, 2015 16:29:03 GMT
I think it is unclear. I would like to say "no". I don't think that mere proximity should require someone to shoot everyone at once. I can't think of a good out of game explanation for why that would be the case. Looking at the language of the rules, there's a conditional clause at the beginning of the third sentence in the paragraph. This implies that it is not always necessary for the effect to take place. It says " When a group of mecha in close formation attacks at the same time, the normal rules for attacking apply. However the mecha in the close formation must attack simultaneously, going through all the steps of attacking together, rather than individually as normal"(emphasis added). By saying "when they attack at the same time" it appears to be saying that they could also not attack at the same time. The " must attack simultaneously" in the next sentence would therefore mean 'this is what you must do to get the close formation bonus', and not 'this is what you must do every time you are within two inches of one another'. That's at least the way we've been playing it. It could pretty easily be read the other way as well. I don't think there's going to be a consensus on this. |
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Post by ItsUncertainWho on Jan 17, 2015 16:31:42 GMT
You must specify who each mech is shooting at as you activate them. When you choose to use close formation you would need to specify which units are shooting together.
No. Close formation isn't and shouldn't be a forced game state.
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Post by CappenVerra on Jan 17, 2015 19:17:33 GMT
I agree the close formation should not be forced but I can certainly see this coming up as an issue because of the defensive bonus that the formation also provides by letting you "share" some damage with other mechas.
If there is no easy "default" way of determining who is in in close formation and who isn't (apart from the player declaring it at the end of the movement) I foresee all sorts of shenanigans where people would claim to be in formation just to get the defensive sharing bonus.
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Post by mike1975 on Jan 17, 2015 19:23:40 GMT
See the other thread on Close Formation
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Post by Thorfinn on Jan 18, 2015 17:12:26 GMT
I can see what Brian is seeing, and concede this is a possible intent. However, for purposes of KISS, and keeping the game moving, it's a lot easier to have models in 2" be in Close Formation all the time.
Keep in mind that just because they're attacking at the same time doesn't mean they must attack the same target(s).
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