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Post by mrwright on Jan 17, 2015 18:54:26 GMT
First post here and curious to get other's thoughts.
GU-11 has Rapid fire. On both the card and the description of Battloid on page 35 it states "can be used to rapid fire an additional time each turn." So does the Spartan and Gerwalk both get to fire GU-11's twice and a VF-1 Battloid fire 3 times? Someone help an old rules lawyer out!
Secondly, and this is more just a general discussion-type question: I feel like that if the rules were set up to follow what happens in the animation (which Carmen said directly to me on several occasions at Gencon whenever I questioned anything) Most of the UEDF missile launchers should obey the 'volley x' rule. You certainly see Tomohawks, VF-1's, and Phalanx mechs all unload missile launchers in a single blast at various times. Or there should be at least an 'unload' rule for the hight capacity missile launchers. Any thoughts on getting something about that brewing in the FAQ?
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Post by mike1975 on Jan 17, 2015 19:22:43 GMT
You would think so BUT the Spartan cards do not say that they get the "Additional" shot with a GU-11.
For simplicity every unit must use the volley rules. It's a balance of reflecting the show and keeping it simple.
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Post by mrwright on Jan 17, 2015 20:30:43 GMT
Mike1975- That is actually my point. The the GU-11 has Rapid fire. That is in the description of the weapon. That goofy and unnecessary sentence in the the VF-1 Battloid section is the only time it is used. So, for that sentence to be useful, versus my earlier description of 'goofy and unnecessary,' then the Battloid mode has 3 shots. At least that is how it reads. I, frankly, think that the intent is for it to have two shots but I can't be the only person who reads it in the other way. And since the VF-1 is supposed to be super powerful anyway, you could make the argument that the intent is there for it to leverage the UEDF faction bonus even further.
On another note, what exactly is complex about a full-payload volley? Maybe the rules makers were a little to excited about how powerful missiles should be instead of trying to replicate what we see in the show. This is going to come up again when New Gen comes around because Alpha and Beta fighters do it too...
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Post by mike1975 on Jan 18, 2015 15:58:57 GMT
Yes, BUT the Veritech in its description has the fire an additional time that does not exist on the Spartan cards. It seems wrong to me too but if we do RAW the Spartan could only fire 2x.
It's not only about shooting a bunch of missiles but it is also about balance and missile ammo tracking. If you could fire the full load, then why not half? Why not just make everything Volley X?
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Post by Thorfinn on Jan 18, 2015 16:26:22 GMT
Yes, a Valkyrie in battloid mode may fire it's gun 3 times, expending 2CP. Keep in mind, you have to declare how many times you will fire, the target(s), and commit any applicable CP BEFORE you roll. So the third shot may be overkill, but by the time you find out, you've already spent the CP.
In my opinion, the third shot helps balance the battloid vs the other 2 modes. The fighter is super fast, can fire missiles, and has the best defense, though it can only fire one weapon, and is limited in maneuverability. The guardian has the most firepower and best PIL, but is limited in hand-to-hand. The battloid has the most h-t-h attacks available to it, the best GN, and the longest range with the cannon, but is the slowest mode, and can't fire missiles. So allowing it to fire the gun one more time - and not for free mind you - is not that big a deal. Keep in mind the gaurdian mode can fire that gun twice and then unload a volley of missiles at you. On the receiving end, I'd honestly rather take 3 cannon shots than 2 cannons and 4 missiles.
I think Volley X for all missile systems probably would have simplified the rules a little. That said, when you look at systems with Volley X, I believe they tend to be low damage missiles. Is there anyone who really wants to be on the receiving end of 12 missiles doing 9 points of damage each? That's up to 108 points!
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Post by mrwright on Jan 18, 2015 18:34:32 GMT
Quick thanks to Thorfinn for a direct response to the Battloid question- we read that the same way and I agree with your other points as well. We should game together!
Specifically, I think Mike1975 thinks the battloid gets 3 shots too- care to weigh in? BTW- close quarters destroid squadron states GU-11 RG:24, MD:6, Rapid Fire.
Nothing is perfect and I guess we can all just agree to disagree on the missile thing. I don't think everything should be Volley X, but I think it could have been used more in the case of high-capacity, exposed missile racks.
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Post by mike1975 on Jan 19, 2015 14:57:29 GMT
Yeah, the battloid definitely gets 3 shots, WAyne with PB confirmed this. I was skeptical but that is the way it was meant to be played. Seems like a LOT of firepower and the GU-11 is Nasty because the shots can ONLY be dodged PLUS the Battloid has a higher GN making the shots harder to dodge as it is.
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