Close Formation Attack Bonus Clarification

The heart of this is that you must declare all the attacks and targets for all those models in close formation at the same time, before you start to roll for them. Other mecha in the squadron that are outside the close formation area will do theirs separately.

So say you have 3 pods in close formation. The other 5 remaining pods are all on the other side of the board. We won't worry about them. All 3 pods will get the +1 bonus because their GN of 1 (or 2 if you paid for the veteran upgrade) is less than the number of models in the close formation.

The pods are going to fire into a squad of Valkyries. You must declare the targets for each of them, and which guns will fire, and commit the command points if applicable, before you begin rolling dice for them. This means it's possible that you may get some overkill. So let's say they all target the lead Valkyrie, and they all commit to fire their full load. The first shot is free, and the 2 subsequent shots from each cost 2 CP each, for a total of 6 CP committed to this attack. You start rolling dice. In this example, all the pods are in the same arc of the Valkyrie, so there's no crossfire bonuses and all their target numbers are the same. You could roll your dice together, which will save some time.

So you grab 3 dice and roll for the particle cannons. 3 hits! Who would have thought. Anyway, the micronians are out of CP, so there will be no dodging for this guy, or rolling with the impact. To add insult to injury, he's too far from his mates to be able to split the damage with them. He already had some damage, and this blast finishes him off.

But, "wait", you say. "I still have 6 more shots. Can't I now target another mech?". No. Those shots were committed to the mech you just killed. "Well, then, I'll just take those Command Points back, since I don't need to take those shots anymore. The target is dead." No again. Those CP were committed to that attack as well. They're already spent.

Effectively, all 9 weapons fired at that mech. You could work out the results of the other 6 shots if your OCD compels you, but he'll be just as dead.

That's the balance of the close formation. You gain a bonus to hit, but you're locked into a course of action, where mechs outside the close formation have the advantage of seeing what others do. Keep in mind, each individual must still declare all the attacks and targets they wish to fire upon, AND commit the CP if applicable, before they roll any dice for that attack.

Close Formation Page 18.

A group of mecha from the same squadron that are all within 2 inches of another mecha from the same group are said to be in close formation.

It does not say may or give any caveat. It is implied that as a given that they ARE in Close Formation.

The Glaug does not get the Bonus because his GN is already equal to or greater than the number of units in the Close Formation group. If the Glaug was with 3 Pods it would get the +1 Bonus. Note only 2 Pods are in formation with the Glaug in the example.

That is how I interpret it. Otherwise you have to mark and keep track of what is and what is not in close formation. The game was based on keeping it simple.

10-4, I see what you're saying.  

So you could, then, with a set of models in close formation, declare all attacks with all weapon systems and at different targets, spending necessary CP costs, and just consider it simultaneous and remove destroyed figures at the end of the squadron's combat step, as you mentioned before.

For example, picture a Glaug and two Regults in B2B facing a 1A and a 1J.  The Regults both could target the 1A with the particle cannon, spend 2CPs to target also with the autocannons (getting four attacks against the 1A only), and the Glaug could target the 1J with the particle cannon, spend 1CP to additionally target with the dual heavies (getting two attacks to the 1J only), and they'd all get the +1 bonus to Strike for firing simultaneously.  If the first rolls took out the targets, they're done, and can't change targets, or elect to spend CP to continue attacking with additional weapon systems.  

In other words, nothing is keeping you from only attacking one target, or only utilizing a single weapon system.  

Like I said RRT is based KISS. That being said they are also working on advanced rules that could alter some of these things

The Close Formation rule works fine. Sure, there will be times when it's a disadvantage, but it's balance out by the advantages. That Glaug that you'd like to keep out of Close Formation when firing, will benefit from Close Formation when it's the target, regardless of it's GN. When 4 Valkyries target it (in Close Formation) it will be able to dissipate much more damage to the pods than it could if the Valkyries all fired individually, or if it wasn't in Close Formation with the pods.

And as Mike pointed out, the disadvantage to the Glaug in the book example was only because it was in a small group. Add another pod to that group and the Glaug gets the bonus as well.

Well, ok, yeah... Reading it again, I can see that interpretation. Now, only those attacking simultaneously would get the +1 bonus.

The question then is, do the one(s) not opting to attack simultaneously not attack at all, as they are opting not to fire with the rest of their Close Formation? You could read it like that.

My point with that bit was not necessarily that the Glaug received the bonus, but that it was forced to try to take the bonus (regardless of whether it was going to get it or not), indicating that the close formation was indeed a forced condition to the group.  

I don't think I have a problem with the simultaneous attack rule, especially if all units in formation can target different models, and they're not forced into using only a single weapon system.

I think the statement about the Glaug only went to whether there were enough mecha for him to receive the bonus.  It was an example to show how many you needed to get the +1, not that he necessarily was forced to fire at the same time.

I'm okay with whichever way it gets resolved. I can see speed of play issues with both sides.

With my interpretation, you've got the danger of somebody slowing the game down by using the absolute minimum number of mechs necessary to give them the bonus, and splitting up the rest. "These two pods shoot this guy, then these two pods shoot the guy behind him, and these two pods shoot the guy behind that."

With the other interpretation, you're going to have the same thing, but people will be ultra meticulous in the movement phase, ensuring that these three guys are 2.01 inches away from those 3 guys, so they can group everyone differently. It would require a bit more foresight, so people who are trying for it have to plan a bit more, but that might slow things down even more.

We played today, four players, two 150pt UEDF teams vs. two 150pt Malcontent teams, and stuck strictly to the rule.  

There were three or four instances where the first roll of the simultaneous fire took out a target, wasting the rest of the declared action and spent CPs, but honestly, the prospect of the bonus to hit far overshadowed the hassle of having superfluous shots.  I feel like we paid way more attention to back arc fire and crossfire, and tried to set up kill zones and firing solutions with just the right angles to get all the bonuses possible.  

While I think it's a little unwieldy at first, I think this is an OK rule that doesn't break anything.  They clearly didn't explain it well enough, in mechanical terms or philosophy of gameplay, but as we have been talking about it above works without anything seeming overly unnatural.

We did run into one weird situation-

Picture a situation where only one unit of a close formation group is able to legally shoot a target, like a pair of units in close formation, but one is fully screened from the enemy behind a building.  The one that has LOS wants to shoot at the enemy target.  (This could also be a situation where two or more figures out in the open have LOS to a target, but only one of them has a weapon system with enough range to hit it.)  It makes sense that the firing unit doesn't get the +1 bonus to Strike, as it's like an individual unit at that point, and there's no real practical effect that would give the attack any benefit.  

Any input?

While that last point is logical, I think trying to measure those one off instances would basically slow things down. Or you could change it to units get the +1 is the number of units shooting at a single target is 1 or more than the GN of the attacking unit. So if 3 destroids attack in Close Formation the MUST fire at the same target to get the bonus. While this may make sense it completely eliminates the utility of the bonus for anything except battlepods. When are you ever going to have 3 destroids or veritechs fire at the same target?

Exactly, we can build a detailed and realistic simulation but then we are getting into something more akin to Battletech or Starfleet Battles.

LOL, ND did most of the rules. I find that PB people have been learning the rules in the last few months more than anything. Advanced Rules might allow what you want. I'm hoping they will send me some of it so that I can tackle what I know is coming and what has yet to be worked on so I know when to tell fellow players to be patient that something is on the way or to pass something along.