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Post by InitiatedNeophyte on Jan 5, 2015 1:09:44 GMT
I've seen more than once someone asking to know what a newb thinks of building these models. So, here is my thread to document the process.
What I Know: I've built a few "Flames of War" German assault guns (similar to tank) and Panzer IV H tanks. This was a few years ago, so some of their parts were still made of metal. I especially remember the tracks being metal and taking forever to adhere to the resin body using Zap A Gap CA+ glue.
What I Have: Two of every box, including starter box. My Zentraedi artillery are arriving late, though.
What I am Using: Magnifying lamp with light...total sanity saver! Exacto knife. Clippers designed for sprues. Many, many small files of varying shapes. Revell contacta professinal mini modeling glue. A whole LOT of info gleaned from this site and a few other miniature forums. Patience.
What I am Working on Now: All Zentraedi battle pods.
What I have done: PREPARATION Wash every Zentraedi sprue. I thorougly cleaned the kitchen sink and added enough warm water to submerge almost the entire sprue (some sprues have large pieces that stick up). To this I added 1 (one) drop of dish soap. I use a toothbrush dedicated to cleaning minis (ie: I did not use it to brush my teeth before designating it as part of my kit, thus the bristles are nice and straight). I put a sprue in and quickly but GENTLY scrub each individual piece while it is under water. I do this to both sides, making sure to dislodge all air bubbles sticking to the sprue. I then briefly rinse with cold water and let sit to dry. This was essential for the Flames of War tanks, as there was some kind of oily residue that I was certain would mess with the glue and paint, later on. After about half of all the sprues, I added more warm water and 1 (one) more drop of dish soap. This sounds like it takes forever, but it goes pretty quickly. I am taking maybe 45 seconds per sprue.
BUILDING I only just started this. So, this section will grow. I placed the battle pod box and the large schematic of the battle pod in plain sight and studied them. I decided to build the body/head and then build out from there. The pictures on back of the box are pretty helpful in know what parts should be the same across models and which shouldn't. It looks like most of them can vary, in concert with other pieces. For example; the exhaust ports on the side of the head/body should be, uhm, exhausting toward the back, if you want to make an "in flight" battle pod. Otherwise, if the battle pod is just standing and shooting, the exhaust port should face downward.
Although I used the clippers on most pieces, I was not shy about using the exacto knife to gently weaken the area before cutting with the clippers. I had read many people talking about parts SHATTERING (!) when they were clipped free of the sprue. I wanted to avoid this at all costs. I only cut what I am about to attach to the model. This is to avoid losing small, fiddly parts and also will allow me to dismantle the sprue to get at difficult parts later on, if necessary.
I dry fit EVERYTHING. If there is a gap, I file down one or both sides and then dry fit again. This has eliminated all gaps, so far and only takes maybe a minute total time to accomplish.
This is a S-L-O-W process, but I am rather OCD. So, this is fun for me...at least so far. My approach may change dramatically as I build more models.
~ ~ ~ OK, that's just the intro. I have a long way to go, but wanted to get this thread started as a means of motivation for myself. I will post pictures once I have my first sprue assembled.
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 5, 2015 1:46:49 GMT
I am glad to see the process you are doing. It's very informative and I look forward to the ongoing posting about it all. but... You do not seem to be a newb to mini gaming and assembly LOL I know when I want to see a newb talking about assembling these minis....I myself mean a newb to mini gaming/assembly in general not just this particular game.
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Post by InitiatedNeophyte on Jan 5, 2015 3:35:19 GMT
I'll take that as a compliment. I read a crap-ton about these minis just after purchasing and I suppose my experience building the tanks counts for more than I thought. In contrast to some (most?) people on this site who have been doing modeling for many years, I consider myself a newb. Nonetheless, I will continue to post my progress. Jaymz, you can change the title of this thread, if you like. Doesn't matter to me.
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 5, 2015 3:51:24 GMT
Nah, I'm fine with it as is. If anyone has an issue that's tough for them And I am definitely more of a newb than you seem to be so it's all good.
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Post by InitiatedNeophyte on Jan 5, 2015 14:37:57 GMT
I just talk a big game.
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 5, 2015 14:46:57 GMT
Dude you lost me "wash the sprues before starting..." LOL
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Post by Galahad on Jan 6, 2015 2:58:35 GMT
Meanwhile I've been hacking plastic for decades and don't wash or dry fit a damned thing...not that it doesn't bite me in the ass once in a while LOL It'll fit or it won't, and if it won't I'll make it fit But I know where you're coming from, Neo (in fact, you've got a hell of an apt name) I overprep like mad ehwn I start something new, then as I get confident I start whttling down my prep work until I get nice and dangerously complacent ;-)
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Post by wumpus on Jan 6, 2015 5:19:00 GMT
I am with you Galahad... I did not wash. I do not trim, unless absolutely necessary. Mainly due to the sheer volume to build.. I want to play the game. and almost have enough for a small skirmish match, 6 more pods to go...
I whipped out a 1S all modes and 6 battlepods tonight. maybe about 10-15minutes a model. My only prior building was shadows of brimstone...and That I found in some ways more of a pain in terms of gaps. These models fit pretty well, and if they are not fitting, then I got the wrong pieces.
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Post by InitiatedNeophyte on Jan 14, 2015 16:07:52 GMT
Thanks, guys for the replies and discussion. Everyone has thier own method and mine has changed as I continue to build. Please continue to discuss, if you feel so inclined. Sorry for not posting after the first sprue was finished, but life got a little complicated and I forgot. ~ ~ ~ BUILDING ZENTRAEDI BATTLE PODS I am half-way through building all eleven of the sprues I have for this model. I have developed a rhythm and will share some details of my process in hopes of helping others. First, assemble the main body. I find I have to file down a small amount of the bottom of the back part in order for it to fit nicely. This is the part that touches the round bottom of the front piece. Otherwise, the front and back can pop apart while dry-fitting. Next assemble the "hips". I've found that every sprue has one pair that does not fit well unless I file down the post that inserts into the middle of the opposite side. Again, I am able to force the pieces together, but they will pop apart pretty easily if I don't file down the post. Glue the hips to the head. For almost every mating, I need to file down the hips to mate with the head. This includes filing down the nub, as well as making the flat part around the nub even (or more flat..?). Otherwise, dry-fitting shows the hips to rock side-to-side. This worries me that it won't be a good hold in the long term if I don't make them fit flat (no rocking). Next, I glue the legs on. I do not dry-fit these anymore, as I have had no problems with them fitting. I am really having fun putting the legs at different angles when I attach them. The Revell glue I use gives me about two seconds to move the leg around before it really startes fastening on. However, if the model will be flying (no foot contact on the base), I attach the "swoosh" stand. There is a VERY small amount of contact between this base and the model. Even with the glue that melts plastic, this is a horrible hold. So, I have taken to pinning these two pieces together. The plastic is fairly easy to drill into. With the hips being more or less hollow, this leaves a lot of wiggle room for the angle of the post. I always glue the post (or pin) into the swoosh base first, then glue the model onto this. Note: This requires super glue, not plastic-melting glue, since I am gluing metal to plastic. Also, the hips are almost entirely obscured by the legs. So, don't fret too much if this part doesn't look up to snuff while building. Glue the mini to the base. REVELL CONTACTA PROFESSIONAL MINI MODELING GLUE WILL NOT HOLD FIGURES TO THE BASES. I'm guessing this is true for any glue that melts plastic to plastic. For this I am using Zap-a-Gap CA+ (as well as for pinning to swoosh bases). This is basically crazy glue (cyanoacrylate). Before applying the glue, I use an exacto blade to make criss-cross marks on the surface of the mini that will receive the glue. This creates a LOT more surface area for the glue to hold the mini to the base. For the flying models, I glue the legs on after the swoosh is secured to the base. Glue the fiddly bits. After all the major work is done, I now feel comfortable attaching the smaller, pointy elements to the model. Otherwise, I'm afraid I would ruin these little pieces as I move the model around attaching the larger parts. First, I put the head antennae on, then the "eye cannons" and finally the chin guns. Depending on whether the model is in motion or standing, I will move the "eye canons" to positions I think are appropriate (while the glue is still "soft"). This is more by feel than anything else. Oops. I forgot the side-engines/ears. These end up going on some time after I glue the legs on. Nothing really gets in the way of these. So, you can attach these at any time. Since they aren't pointy, they don't get in the way of attaching other pieces. These often require the head to be filed down a little, to make a really tight fit. I suppose this is easier without the legs attached, but it's not a big deal. I really enjoy angling these in accord with how the legs are set up. That is to say, if the mini is flying with the legs trailing behind it, I point the exhaust of these engines at a backward angle. Otherwise, if the mini is standing still and firing, I have the exhaust port pointing straight down. Next post will be an attempt at posting a pic * fingers crossed* ~ ~ EDIT ~ ~ I forgot to mention that I work on one sprue's worth of models at a time (three models per sprue). This allows time for the glue to set before attaching the next piece. This also allows me to keep track of just one sprue while assembling.
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Post by InitiatedNeophyte on Jan 14, 2015 16:14:50 GMT
Looks like 1MB is the upper limit for file size attachment...fyi. I used GIMP to scale this down. I hope it still looks decent. Attachments:
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Post by wargamer43210 on Jan 14, 2015 16:21:38 GMT
Nice progress! Pic looks great! If you haven't had a go at the Battlepod command sprue be ready for some excitement! The recon pod especially has some of the most fiddly bits I've came across yet!
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Post by ItsUncertainWho on Jan 14, 2015 16:42:19 GMT
Glue the mini to the base. REVELL CONTACTA PROFESSIONAL MINI MODELING GLUE WILL NOT HOLD FIGURES TO THE BASES. I'm guessing this is true for any glue that melts plastic to plastic. For this I am using Zap-a-Gap CA+ (as well as for pinning to swoosh bases). This is basically crazy glue (cyanoacrylate). Before applying the glue, I use an exacto blade to make criss-cross marks on the surface of the mini that will receive the glue. This creates a LOT more surface area for the glue to hold the mini to the base. I haven't had any issue with the Testors MM liquid cement bonding the mini and the base.
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Post by InitiatedNeophyte on Jan 14, 2015 16:46:13 GMT
I haven't had any issue with the Testors MM liquid cement bonding the mini and the base. Glad to hear it! I will admit I was not as patient as I could have been in letting the glue set. But the super glue begins to stick very quickly and since I am taking a L-O-N-G time to build these, any easy speed-up is nice.
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Post by I Will Never Grow Up Gaming on Jan 14, 2015 20:15:21 GMT
I haven't had any issue with the Testors MM liquid cement bonding the mini and the base. Glad to hear it! I will admit I was not as patient as I could have been in letting the glue set. But the super glue begins to stick very quickly and since I am taking a L-O-N-G time to build these, any easy speed-up is nice. You seem to be doing everything right; Certainly in a more methodical method than I am, and I've got years of experience with miniature modeling, lol.
I agree on using the super glue for the bases. I find mine are stuck almost immediately, so I have to be careful putting it on the base, but the bond is super fast and pretty strong (I pulled one model off the base the next day and it took some effort). It seems CA glue holds to the base a LOT faster than it does between the model parts (I'm using CA/Superglue exclusively right now).
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Post by Galahad on Jan 15, 2015 2:24:42 GMT
I will say I have had testors modelmaster glue fail when joining flight stem swooshes to bases. It'll hold, but the bond is likely to break if the mini is dropped, which is very unusual for that partoicular glue and seems to be just an issue with swooshes because of the reduced surface area I;ve had to go and redo my swoosh bases with superglue which works fine. For all other applications, including gluing feet to bases testors modelmaster works fine.
The pods are a great place to start because it lets you come up with an assembly method and perfect it.
for mine i would build the bodies, glue on laser beanies (for ones that won;t be repurposed as heavies) then assemble the pelvises then go through matching feet to legs. from there I would attach legs to pelvis and come up with a pose, then put ion the body to complement the pose and weapons aimed to follow the action of the model. Build up stockpiles of bodies hips and legs and for god's sake keep the guns on the sprue until you need them. i cut the sprues apart so I could keep them handy without having them easily lost.
I strongly reccommend building sub-assemblies for just about anything. Put together legs for destroids (be careful to match up the feet!) and valkyries, assemble forearms for valks (I'd stop shy of joining arms and forearms just because those can get flddly fast if you;re doing two-handed gun holds) assemble bodies (but not hips) anything you can put together without involving a pose put together ahead of time, that way you can power through final assembly and focus on doing the most with the parts to come up with poses.
That's how I do it at least
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Post by InitiatedNeophyte on Jan 15, 2015 12:43:37 GMT
for [battle pods] that won;t be repurposed as heavies oh? do tell more. What do you mean by heavies? Artillery?
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Post by wargamer43210 on Jan 15, 2015 13:51:53 GMT
Maybe our friend is referring to the possibility of magnetizing the 'beanie' lasers to allow you to swap out from regular pods to support pods. The battlepod head magnetization thread does a great job with a how to. Silly support pods don't come with enough armatures to simply magnetize all the options. They make us do extra work for it!
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Post by Thorfinn on Jan 15, 2015 15:16:32 GMT
In reference to what a few people have mentioned about attaching models to bases, I'll add my $0.02. The bases appear to be cast in some other form of plastic, not the styrene of the figures. The plastic cements will bond to the bases, but not with the same 'melting' effect, so the bond is not as strong. They'll work fine, but can break off the base easily, especially if the model is dropped. But, if you're not clumsy... they should be fine.
CA glues should work better, and adding a little scoring, as IN mentioned, should help. I haven't tested this yet as I'm trying NOT to drop any more figs.
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Post by Galahad on Jan 16, 2015 2:22:26 GMT
I built some home-made weapon stems for the heavy missile pods so that each artillery pod sprue yields 3 fully functional weapon stems, so 12 pods worth of weapons from 4 artillery pds. I then went through and built 8 pods without laser beanies, then I put pins in the beanies and the weapon stems so that I can swap them out on the fly, so not only can I custom tailor my heavies (what I call artillery pods) but I can pull in eight more as needed, or leave them tactical instead.
For a low stress gravity-assisted mounting like this i usually just use pins (cut from paperclips) rather than magnets. It;s cheaper, easier and just as effective. Put a pin in the base of the weapon stem, drill a hole in the divot where the beanie goes and insert pin into hole. Easy peasy
The downside is that if you do a lot of swapping around they can get loose, but these are low stress mountings where they;re working with gravity rather than against it so it's fine.
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Post by InitiatedNeophyte on Jan 16, 2015 15:55:39 GMT
Thanks, Galahad (and everyone else) for the info. Now, I'm really glad I didn't build every last one of my battle pods (procrastination wins again!). I will definitely make some modifications to use more of the artillery weaponry than is allowed by default.
Let the kitbashing begin!
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