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Post by BZArcher on Jan 4, 2015 23:12:03 GMT
We had this scenario come up in a game today, so I thought I'd run it past everyone.
Valkyrie A is in fighter mode, and ended his turn near Valkyrie B from the opposing player's force.
Valkyrie B starts his turn, goes into Battroid, and makes a hand to hand attack on Valk A.
Now, we know based on the errata that Valkyrie A does not have to spend a CP to get out of hand to hand because it's in fighter mode...but what happens if Valk A's player wants to change modes?
(In this case, I was the Valkyrie A player, and because I knew Valk B only had a couple of hitpoints left, I wanted to back off and blast him with my GU-11 in Battroid mode to get the full rat-a-tat-tat on.)
We ended up deciding that because the Valkyrie changes modes before movement, I still had to pay a CP if I wanted to disengage, since I was no longer in Fighter mode.
I'm curious what people think is the way to go here.
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kryptt
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Flying faster than sound!
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Post by kryptt on Jan 5, 2015 0:17:02 GMT
Valkyrie B can't engage in HtH because valk A is in fighter mode and has flight. Models with flight ignore terrain and models.
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Post by Galahad on Jan 5, 2015 0:24:12 GMT
Not quite, Kryptt, the valk has Flight in all modes, even battroid. Flight doesn't keep you out of hand to hand, being an Aircraft does. Valk B still can;t engage Valk A because Valk A is in jet mode. You're basically right but for the wrong reason.
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kryptt
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Flying faster than sound!
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Post by kryptt on Jan 5, 2015 1:54:26 GMT
Thanks G. Been a while since I looked at the book.
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brian
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Post by brian on Jan 5, 2015 4:37:18 GMT
I think you are right, BZArcher. The moment you change modes, you'd be locked in HTH. So you have to either spend a command point or stay in fighter mode.
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Post by Thorfinn on Jan 7, 2015 18:25:27 GMT
In your example, you did it correctly.
Valkyrie B CAN attack Valkyrie A. On Valkyrie A's next activation, it has the choice to fly away for no CP, or transform and then be engaged in combat with B. It could then stay in combat and attack, or pay 1CP, move off, and shoot Valkyrie B (or someone else).
What hasn't come up in our games yet - or honestly occurred to me yet - is the opposite scenario. Using a Valkyrie and a Pod for less confusion, they are engaged in combat. On the Valkyrie's activation it wants to break off. If it transforms to fighter mode, would it:
A)break off for free (0 CP)
or
B)be prevented from transforming while engaged (this may be in the variable mode rules - I don't have a book with me) - Thus it would have to pay 1CP, break off, and then transform at a later time.
I'm inclined to believe A is correct, unless the variable mode rules say otherwise.
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Post by InitiatedNeophyte on Jan 8, 2015 3:05:45 GMT
I think you are right, BZArcher. The moment you change modes, you'd be locked in HTH. So you have to either spend a command point or stay in fighter mode. To address Thorfinn's question; if Brian is right (and he usually is), then the Valk could just fly away for free. My question is: when is HTH determined? From the first example, Valk B was not in HTH because it's opponent was an aircraft. However, at the start of the next activation, Valk A changes to 'anything-not-an-airplane'. At this point is the HTH status re-checked because bases are still touching? OR once the figures are determined to not be in HTH, is that the end of it? I'm guessing a little more thorough reading will answer this. But I wanted to ask before I forgot. ~ ~ EDIT ~ ~ Gosh darn it, Brian, you are right again. p.19, left column, near bottom of page, heading Engaged in Hand to Hand Combat"Once a mecha is in base to base contact with an enemy mech, the two are considereed to be engaged in hand to hand combat..." So, once the valk changes to 'anything not an airplane', they are in base to base contact and THE RUMBLE IS ON!!!
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Post by mike1975 on Jan 8, 2015 3:24:32 GMT
You guys are correct
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Post by Thorfinn on Jan 8, 2015 4:53:08 GMT
You can engage an aircraft in hand to hand. However, it can not attack back as it has no attack types listed, and it will not be locked in combat. On its next activation, it will fly off and does not have to pay any CP to break off.
If aircraft were not meant to be attacked, then their rules would say you can't attack them rather than they fly away for free.
So jump up there and swat at that plane.
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brian
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Post by brian on Jan 8, 2015 6:52:30 GMT
You can *attack* an aircraft in hand to hand. All you need to do to make a hand to hand attack is move into base to base contact and roll. You cannot *engage* an aircraft in hand to hand, because that term has a different meaning in the game. You can attack him, but he's not stuck there.
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