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Post by Jaymz on Jan 2, 2015 4:41:14 GMT
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Post by jingizu on Jan 5, 2015 4:54:10 GMT
I like the Jetfire idea but he is so iconic I have trouble picturing a whole unit painted that way. Personally I plan on getting my hands on an extra Super and painting him up as Jetfire, maybe converting the other into Roy Fokker's Strike Valkyrie from Macross DYRL. For a squadron I'd probably go with the Arcticwolves, but then I am partial to the low observable grey look. For my Valkyries I have a full unit history for them (Marine Air Group 31 off of the ARMD-07 UNS Ranger) so I'm going to keep all of them the same except for tail art.  The MAG consists of the C.O., X.O., and three squadrons (VMFA-122 Night Hunters, VMFA-224 White Tigers, VMFA-115 Wind Wolves) and each squadron has 12 fighters so it may take me a year or two to finish painting them. The only exception will be the inevitable Skull squadron, but since I have duplicate Roys and Ricks coming in wave two I am just going to convert them for Max and Ben and add in a Miriya. |
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Post by vagabondelf on Jan 5, 2015 15:02:47 GMT
Why are Marines flying off a space ship? Marines specialise in seaborne assault, and Marine pilots would emphasize ground combat and close air support at the expense of high-altitude dogfighting and space combat. Anything flying off a spaceship ought to be a regular UN Spacy squadron. (Which is a question you may have answered for yourself all ready, but you didn't answer here.) (Please don't take this as "your creativity is bad and makes no sense you're doing it WRONG!!" but rather "Here is a detail that needs some polishing, which is an opportunity for more creativity.")
I'm doing up 3 flights of Valks. One as Brownies with some details modified - stripes and wingtips to identify individual ships, and black tailfins with Skull insignia - as Sepia Team of Skull Squadron. One in a black/dark grey scheme as Indigo Team of the UN Navy's Rose Squadron (which was on Macross Island preparing to transfer to Prometheus as soon as Skull transferred off Prometheus to the SDF-1). And the last one in a Woodland camo as an as-yet unnamed Marine squadron flying off Daedalus.
I'm also strongly considering doing my -1S as Jefire, and I'm doing a pair of J's as Max & Myria because they're cool.
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Post by popatachi on Jan 5, 2015 16:44:36 GMT
I like the artic wolves theme. I may use that for my first unit and brownies for the second.
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Post by Sundowner on Jan 5, 2015 18:34:55 GMT
Why are Marines flying off a space ship? Marines specialise in seaborne assault, and Marine pilots would emphasize ground combat and close air support at the expense of high-altitude dogfighting and space combat. Anything flying off a spaceship ought to be a regular UN Spacy squadron. (Which is a question you may have answered for yourself all ready, but you didn't answer here.) (Please don't take this as "your creativity is bad and makes no sense you're doing it WRONG!!" but rather "Here is a detail that needs some polishing, which is an opportunity for more creativity.") I'm doing up 3 flights of Valks. One as Brownies with some details modified - stripes and wingtips to identify individual ships, and black tailfins with Skull insignia - as Sepia Team of Skull Squadron. One in a black/dark grey scheme as Indigo Team of the UN Navy's Rose Squadron (which was on Macross Island preparing to transfer to Prometheus as soon as Skull transferred off Prometheus to the SDF-1). And the last one in a Woodland camo as an as-yet unnamed Marine squadron flying off Daedalus. I'm also strongly considering doing my -1S as Jefire, and I'm doing a pair of J's as Max & Myria because they're cool. Actually, Marine Aircraft fly off of carriers all the time during wartime. Take Vietnam, Marine A-4's and F-4's were stationed on Navy carriers and flew sorties off of them. And you are right, a Marine aircraft's job is to support the Marine landings, which in a space environment would be planet fall, therefoe I would say the Marine aircraft would launch from the spaceship to support Marine planet landings. |
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Post by warchild9 on Jan 5, 2015 20:38:45 GMT
I like the Jetfire idea but he is so iconic I have trouble picturing a whole unit painted that way. Personally I plan on getting my hands on an extra Super and painting him up as Jetfire, maybe converting the other into Roy Fokker's Strike Valkyrie from Macross DYRL. For a squadron I'd probably go with the Arcticwolves, but then I am partial to the low observable grey look. For my Valkyries I have a full unit history for them (Marine Air Group 31 off of the ARMD-07 UNS Ranger) so I'm going to keep all of them the same except for tail art. The MAG consists of the C.O., X.O., and three squadrons (VMFA-122 Night Hunters, VMFA-224 White Tigers, VMFA-115 Wind Wolves) and each squadron has 12 fighters so it may take me a year or two to finish painting them. The only exception will be the inevitable Skull squadron, but since I have duplicate Roys and Ricks coming in wave two I am just going to convert them for Max and Ben and add in a Miriya. Like the scheme! |
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Post by Jaymz on Jan 6, 2015 0:22:12 GMT
I like the Jetfire idea but he is so iconic I have trouble picturing a whole unit painted that way. I may have not explained properly...The Jetfire scheme would be for my VF-1R which will also be played as special character (using the rpg conversion rules int eh rule book) |
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Post by jingizu on Jan 6, 2015 7:36:36 GMT
Jaymz,
I see now, I missed that. I think the Jetfire scheme should look great as the focal point for a special character.
Sundowner,
Beat me to it. Not only do Marines fly off carriers in times of war or when local airfields aren't available, but three squadrons are permanently attached to Carrier Air Wings. Detailed and pedantic explanation to follow.
Vagabondelf,
I didn’t post details earlier because I didn’t want to hijack Jaymz’ Colour Schemes thread but since you decided to bring it up, here you go.
There are several reasons for my use of a Marine Air Group, mostly having to do with the choice to ground my force composition in modern military realities. The United States Marine Corps maintains nine Marine Fighter Attack Squadrons (VMFA) and three of them are deployed aboard Nimitz class supercarriers operated by the United States Navy. They operate aboard the U.S.S. Theodore Roosevelt, U.S.S. Harry S. Truman and U.S.S. Nimitz as part of Carrier Air Wings 1, 3, and 11 respectively. All other VMFAs and VMFA(AW)s can be deployed aboard carriers on an as needed basis, though as long as allied airbases are available that is rarely necessary. This is why all Marine Corps Aviators are required to be certified as Naval Aviators by the United States Navy. The VMFA squadrons list their primary role as intercepting and destroying enemy aircraft and fleet threats with their secondary responsibility being ground attack and close air support. Of course with fewer and fewer nations able to put up a credible air threat the interception role is becoming less relevant for all branches of service.
The characterization of Marines as only being specialized in seaborne assault is woefully inaccurate. The Marines have expanded their operational envelope and responsibilities for decades. Of the thousands of Marines that have rotated through Iraq and Afghanistan in the last decade, none of them arrived by seaborne assault. As for Marine Aviators, the Weapons and Tactics Instructor program at MCAS Yuma trains them in all aspects of their mission, including air to air engagements at all ranges throughout the flight envelope.
All of the squadrons in my force are fictionalized versions of existing Marine Corps squadrons VMFA 122 Werewolves, VMFA(AW) 224 Bengals, and VMFA 115 Silver Eagles. Each of these squadrons has a long and honored history not only in the attack role but in air to air operations.
In fictional terms I prefer the original Macross source materials when looking at force deployments as there is a great deal more canon material available. In this case my inspiration for the paint scheme comes from Variable Fighter Master File VF-1 Valkyrie and the entry on U.N.S. Marine Squadron SVMF-49. This is also where I decided that having 30-40 Marine Corps fighters wasn’t outside the realm of possibility. By the end of Space War I the surviving ARMD platforms went from having a dozen Valkyries and several hundred Lancers and ghosts to having 262 Valkyries, 66 Ghosts, and no more than 100 Lancers. Given that a modern Naval Carrier might have up to a quarter of its fighter compliment manned by Marines I see no problem with 3 of the 20+ squadrons on an ARMD being Marines. While I could mix Naval and Marine squadrons I like the coherency of making them all Marines. I chose to station my fictional force aboard the ARMD-07 UNS Ranger as it is one of the few ARMD platforms to have been given a name in the source material. In my personal head canon the Ranger had just relieved the Akagi on the Lunar run when Dolza arrived with his fleet. This put the Ranger out of range to provide support but also prevented its loss during Dolza’s attack. During the reconstruction it served as an orbital base of operations allowing observation of the Asian sub-continent and pacific theater with its attached Carrier Air Wings rotating out on six month deployments.
Finally there are the tactical realities of spaceborn mecha combat. Given the Marines' rifleman heritage, and the fact that Marine Aviators are more tightly integrated with the ground forces than any other pilots, they would seem to be uniquely suited to adapting to the Valkyrie fighter and the use of the battloid mode. Deployment of Marine Valkyries aboard an ARMD platform would allow them to respond to developing situations anywhere on the surface, though it would be pretty inefficient since Valkyries lack single stage to orbit capability. More importantly, if humanity were facing imminent attack from an alien threat Marine Aviators would not be left sitting on their hands on the surface. They would be at the vanguard of the fight as they have been in every confrontation the United States has been involved in since WWII. The Marines have a tradition of being the first ones in and the last ones out regardless of terrain, environment, or opponent, and moving the flight envelope to Earth orbit is unlikely to change that. It’s part of the reason Marines often appear in science fiction.
Sorry for the long ramble. I admit that I am a cranky old Grognard and when someone starts out by saying my concept needs polishing and you ought to do it this way when they have no idea what my concept is I get a bit….heated. Sorry about that.
Semper Fi.
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Post by vagabondelf on Jan 6, 2015 14:59:43 GMT
Well, I didn't find your reply heated, and I'm sorry my comment came across as "you ought to do it this way." I rather explicitly stated that was not my intention, and I regret that the tone didn't back the intent.
You've clearly thought about it, and your explanation is interesting. Thanks for that! (And apologies to Jaymz for the hijack.) It's not how I'd do it, but with the full explanation I can see where our baseline assumptions differ - which is a large part of why we get to different places.
For interest's sake, my different assumptions are:
1) that the UN Marines are not a 100% direct successor to the US Marines. The Royal Marines, the Infantarie Navale, and other similar units will also have an influence. How much of an influece depends on how strong the US was in forming the World Government, and that's something I don't think we've any official data on, so we're probably making opposite assumptions on that as well.
2) The UN Marines primary role is rapid intervention, probably via seaborne means. Valkyries actually make this easier, since you can launch a high-performance fighter off of a helicopter carrier and have it become an armoured fighting vehicle when it gets where it's going. Also, the Marines' expected opposition is Anti-UN (and later Malcontent) forces who are down on the ground, not up in space.
3) That the UN Spacy has it's own boarding-actions-and-ground-combat corps, just as the UN Navy has the Marines. I call them Espaciers. (I acknowledge I've created this out of whole cloth.) The Espaciers handle the sorts of things MArines would, but in space and on other Sol System bodies.
4) That the timeframe is 2008-2009, not 2014-ish. Which is probably the biggest point of divergence right there.
Anyway, you've answered my question. I still feel it was a legit question, though I'm sorry it seemed dictatorial to you; and I appreciate the answer.[/b]
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