mouse
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Posts: 18 
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Post by mouse on Dec 9, 2014 3:19:41 GMT
HI  OK the rules allow you to shoot the ground, when placing your blast template. Here is my problem. Tonight the Defender Mechs with there wonderful air-burst ammo were shooting the ground. But they were targetting tiny little spots between mechs. They were drawing their line right between mechs (that were less than a cm apart), right into the center of the mech grouping. Since you are not aiming at a mech, but a very small point, there is no cover. The player skimmed the woods, and could draw an unobstructed straight line right to the center of my stuff. Is this legal? Perhaps you should have to place a mech base down, and assume your target point is that sized, when determining if there is cover. What do you think?  |
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Post by popatachi on Dec 9, 2014 3:48:23 GMT
I think it is technically correct. He would have to use a DF 5 for attacking a spot on the ground, but probably not in the spirit of game? If the blast template was in partial cover, I would think that it would grant soft cover save, but blasts are a bit tricky. Maybe use the blast template as well as LOS to determine cover?
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Post by merknight79 on Dec 25, 2014 19:21:07 GMT
My question would be, where does it say a spot (target) would not get cover? If you are shooting at a location on the ground, you would draw a direct line from your attacking unit to that specific spot. If any point in that line passed through cover or if that spot is actually IN cover, the cover penalty would apply to the standard Diff of 5.
As far as blasts go, I would take a page out of the 40K rule book (which it appears this game has already taken as a template in several places) and use the center of the blast template to determine cover saves as that is the origin of the explosion and where any damage would radiate out from...thus logically, anything between the model and the center of the template would provide cover.
One thing this game needs, is an official FAQ. Until then, house rules that are logical and agreeable should be used.
Very Respectfully,
Randy
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Post by merknight79 on Dec 25, 2014 19:27:16 GMT
Note: If a Target is in Cover Section- It simply says if the target is in soft cover, there is a -1 penalty (thus a diff of 6 for a ground target in soft cover) and if the target is in hard cover, there is a -2 penalty (thus a diff of 7 for a ground target in hard cover). Also, you cannot target a spot on the ground that you cannot actually see (ie: a spot behind a wall or in a ruin, blocked by an enemy Mecha, behind a bush you cant see through, etc etc)...Hope this helps
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Post by InitiatedNeophyte on Jan 8, 2015 2:15:35 GMT
Errata fixed this "Missiles with the Blast trait must be fired at a terrain feature such as a tree or building (something over ¾ inches tall) or at a unit such as an enemy mecha and the blast template is centered over the target. Missiles with the Blast trait cannot normally be targeted at a specific spot such as a corner of a building or spot on the ground." Mike's Errata Thread |
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Post by mike1975 on Jan 8, 2015 3:28:36 GMT
Not approved.....yet.....but I think this is how it should be.
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Post by InitiatedNeophyte on Jan 8, 2015 4:06:16 GMT
I agree. I think targeting a spot that is directly behind a bunch of mechs engaged in combat is more than a little silly. Just my2 cents.
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Post by mike1975 on Jan 8, 2015 13:28:09 GMT
Now if you have missiles with indirect fire (like the VEF-1) or cannons like the monster then I think it would be fair to target a spot on the ground.
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Post by mariettabrit on Jan 9, 2015 19:13:49 GMT
I think blasts should be able to target the ground with DF5, that part is fine... anything caught in the blast template still is only hit on their normal DF... so if you roll a 6 total to hit ground but there's a Glaug and some Regults under the template, the Glaug managed to avoid injury (DF7) but the unlucky regults are toast  |
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Post by mike1975 on Jan 10, 2015 0:33:50 GMT
I think blasts should be able to target the ground with DF5, that part is fine... anything caught in the blast template still is only hit on their normal DF... so if you roll a 6 total to hit ground but there's a Glaug and some Regults under the template, the Glaug managed to avoid injury (DF7) but the unlucky regults are toast If that is the case then that needs to be specified. I know people shooting the ground next to a Glaug and calling that a hit. DF also represents armor thickness/toughness and not just maneuverability. |
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mouse
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by mouse on Jan 10, 2015 3:23:55 GMT
I like your thought about needing to actually hit the targets DF. Needing a 5 when a Glaug is 7 is A BIG DIFFERENCE.  If you hit the 5 you actually hit the spot, but may still need more to affect certain mechs. One thing I would like to say... When I originally posted this thread my complaint was that my friend was targeting a point. And when I say point, I mean the point and the end of line. Not that sort of spot I am targetting, BUT AN ACTUAL POINT. Imagine two mechs practically touching (for argumentitive sake they could be base to base. He draws a line to exactly the point between the bases. Since a point has no area (it is the end of a line), and the line never crossed a base... There is no cover.... The spot you target should have to be as big as a mini-base or something. That is what started this Thread. |
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Post by megatrons2nd on Jan 10, 2015 15:06:08 GMT
That idea would then make the scatter of blasts pointless, if you missed the 5 scattered and landed on another mecha then you would still miss.....
The whole point of the blast is to hit by bypassing the mobility part of the mechas defense stat. The original attack roll is what is used to dodge against, making a missed blast, or a roll of 5 on the target the ground is still relatively easy to dodge the attack.
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Post by ItsUncertainWho on Jan 10, 2015 18:57:09 GMT
When I originally posted this thread my complaint was that my friend was targeting a point. And when I say point, I mean the point and the end of line. Not that sort of spot I am targetting, BUT AN ACTUAL POINT. Keep in mind that bases mean nothing. Since they chose stupidly to use TLoS with torso/hull as targeting areas, you can target areas of the ground covered by the bases that are visible. It is perfectly reasonable to target the point where two bases touch since the bases don't exist in the game world. |
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Post by mike1975 on Jan 10, 2015 22:42:39 GMT
I like your thought about needing to actually hit the targets DF. Needing a 5 when a Glaug is 7 is A BIG DIFFERENCE. If you hit the 5 you actually hit the spot, but may still need more to affect certain mechs. One thing I would like to say... When I originally posted this thread my complaint was that my friend was targeting a point. And when I say point, I mean the point and the end of line. Not that sort of spot I am targetting, BUT AN ACTUAL POINT. Imagine two mechs practically touching (for argumentitive sake they could be base to base. He draws a line to exactly the point between the bases. Since a point has no area (it is the end of a line), and the line never crossed a base... There is no cover.... The spot you target should have to be as big as a mini-base or something. That is what started this Thread. I think that is BS unless you use missiles with Indirect the missiles still follow a flight path and anything in the line will be an obstacle. So if I'm understanding you right he's interpreting Blast weapons to also basically be indirect fire weapons when those are two separate traits. So if you fire a Blast missile through some trees to hit a spot on the ground the intervening trees still add -1 (Light Cover) to the Strike Roll. |
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brian
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Posts: 91 
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Post by brian on Jan 11, 2015 1:25:12 GMT
I think what she's saying is that he's looking down the line and picking the one small point that isn't shielded by cover. Like you get down at eye level and say "okay I'm picking... here" because whatever you can see will not have cover. If I target a battlepod, then half the battlepod can be covered by something. So he gets cover. But if I'm targeting a point, I can pick the battlepod's kneecap, or antenna, or whatever I want. So I'm always going to choose something that is not in cover.
Personally, I think the obvious blast advantages are supposed to be balanced by their drawbacks -- scatter, multiple people getting a chance to shoot them down, etc. I'm not too worried about them avoiding cover.
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Post by Thorfinn on Jan 11, 2015 1:53:03 GMT
I would tend to agree, but part of what is on the table here is an attempt to mitigate the scatter by avoiding the cover that may be applying to every model that's covered by that particular template. Unfortunately, you can't even really say 'let's treat such attacks as indirect fire' as the rules for indirect fire in this game are very generous in discounting cover.
The trouble with blast weapons is that they never really miss. You my not hit what you wanted, and you may hit something you didn't want to (like your own guys), but you're very, very likely to hit something, which is very different than regular weapons that either hot or miss, even if the logical result of a miss would have the shot hit something nearby.
Is it a very sportsmanlike maneuver? Not at all. Is it within the letter of the rules? Yes.
Game rules are an abstract. Outside of a computer simulator, you will never get something realistic. Just roll with it and have fun, and if you can't bear to have your model blown to kingdom come, keep it in the case. This is a game of blowing up robots. Robots are going to die.
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